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	<title>Comments on: Evangelizing Children Without Manipulation</title>
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	<description>Children&#039;s ministry should NOT be so hard . . .  Ministry-To-Children.com exists to help you. You&#039;ll find thousands of lessons, ideas, and resources for telling kids about Jesus. All of this is 100% free and easy to print..</description>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-22567</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-22567</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;ve been looking through this website since I stumbled upon an article about trunk or treat and I found it quite interesting. I an not a Christian but I just wanted to offer one lone thought. I&#039;m not going to comment on how any of you raise your children, that&#039;s not my place. But I have seen a friend do this on numerous occasions and it makes me feel so bad for their child. The child will lie to them, or take a cookie they weren&#039;t allowed and the parent will say, &quot;Don&#039;t lie to me, or you&#039;re going to go to Hell.&quot; I think that is the point of abuse when they manipulate the child with fear. Just my two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;ve been looking through this website since I stumbled upon an article about trunk or treat and I found it quite interesting. I an not a Christian but I just wanted to offer one lone thought. I&#8217;m not going to comment on how any of you raise your children, that&#8217;s not my place. But I have seen a friend do this on numerous occasions and it makes me feel so bad for their child. The child will lie to them, or take a cookie they weren&#8217;t allowed and the parent will say, &#8220;Don&#8217;t lie to me, or you&#8217;re going to go to Hell.&#8221; I think that is the point of abuse when they manipulate the child with fear. Just my two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: 5 Things Kids Must Know About Sin (#4 What Are the Consquences of Sin?) &#171; Dad In The Middle</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-8127</link>
		<dc:creator>5 Things Kids Must Know About Sin (#4 What Are the Consquences of Sin?) &#171; Dad In The Middle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:23:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-8127</guid>
		<description>[...] is controversial, and has been discussed in the Children&#8217;s Ministry Think Tank forum before. Think Tank #4 asked the question: “How should children’s ministry offer an urgent Gospel invitation without [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is controversial, and has been discussed in the Children&#8217;s Ministry Think Tank forum before. Think Tank #4 asked the question: “How should children’s ministry offer an urgent Gospel invitation without [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne Stocks</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7620</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Stocks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7620</guid>
		<description>If Tim offered 2 1/2 cents, I&#039;m afraid this may be 3 or 4 cents (which is probably at least two too many!).

Jared,

Thanks for the insight. I like the quote from Henry Zonio.  I think he really hits the nail on the head.  Salvation, in children and adults, is about a lot more than just saying a prayer, it&#039;s about a heart attitude.  I appreciate your point #2.  I think many times in Children&#039;s Ministry we downplay the importance of sin in salvation.  If a child does not understand that they are a sinner, they can never see the need for salvation.  It&#039;s easy to say we all sin, it takes more work to show a child their own personal sin (and yours) and explain why it is abominable to God.  

As for you point #3 on heaven and hell, there is definitely a fine line to be walked there.  I want a child to understand the penalty for sin and want him to desire the rewards of heaven, but I don&#039;t want to use fear or greed to try to usher them into the kingdom.  There is, after all, no fear in love.

In regards to point #4 (and I promise not to go into every point :)) I couldn&#039;t agree with you more when you point out the &quot;The gospel is NOT primarily about Jesus’ work in our heart but about Jesus’ work in history.&quot;  My son actually struggles with the question you pose - why do I have continue to have problems with getting angry since I&#039;ve accepted Jesus into my heart?  All I can do is point him biblical examples like Peter and ensure him that all Christians continue to struggle in their walk and we will not be perfected until our Lord comes again.

Finally, I also worry about the &quot;sinner&#039;s prayer&quot; being over-sold.  I&#039;ve known children absolutely convinced that they were saved because they had &quot;said the words&quot; but clearly living a lifestyle contrary to God&#039;s will.  I think it&#039;s important that kids understand that the way we show love to God is in obedience to his will.  Conversion to the Christian life is just that - a life - not an event.

Brenna, thanks for the bridge analogy.  I have never quite seen it put like that, and I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll have the opportunity to use that at some point in the future.  I think you also hit on an important point re: Children&#039;s Ministry in general and that is the importance of small groups and close relationships.  Without those, I think it is virtually impossible to know whether or not a child it truly ready to accept Christ, and once they have there is no means of helping them to grow in the faith. 

Glen, I think you&#039;ve probably hit on the most important point.  It is prudent that we give some thought to how we will present the gospel to anyone.  It is particularly prudent that we give thought to how we will present to gospel to kids to avoid manipulating them.  But, in the end, it is the work of God to save them.  It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict them, and it is the work of God to draw them to him.  We are merely his vessels.

Thanks again for all your replies.  I love these installments of the Children&#039;s Ministry Think Tank.  They always leave me with new ideas and new things to ponder and pray about.

Take Care!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Tim offered 2 1/2 cents, I&#8217;m afraid this may be 3 or 4 cents (which is probably at least two too many!).</p>
<p>Jared,</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight. I like the quote from Henry Zonio.  I think he really hits the nail on the head.  Salvation, in children and adults, is about a lot more than just saying a prayer, it&#8217;s about a heart attitude.  I appreciate your point #2.  I think many times in Children&#8217;s Ministry we downplay the importance of sin in salvation.  If a child does not understand that they are a sinner, they can never see the need for salvation.  It&#8217;s easy to say we all sin, it takes more work to show a child their own personal sin (and yours) and explain why it is abominable to God.  </p>
<p>As for you point #3 on heaven and hell, there is definitely a fine line to be walked there.  I want a child to understand the penalty for sin and want him to desire the rewards of heaven, but I don&#8217;t want to use fear or greed to try to usher them into the kingdom.  There is, after all, no fear in love.</p>
<p>In regards to point #4 (and I promise not to go into every point :)) I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more when you point out the &#8220;The gospel is NOT primarily about Jesus’ work in our heart but about Jesus’ work in history.&#8221;  My son actually struggles with the question you pose &#8211; why do I have continue to have problems with getting angry since I&#8217;ve accepted Jesus into my heart?  All I can do is point him biblical examples like Peter and ensure him that all Christians continue to struggle in their walk and we will not be perfected until our Lord comes again.</p>
<p>Finally, I also worry about the &#8220;sinner&#8217;s prayer&#8221; being over-sold.  I&#8217;ve known children absolutely convinced that they were saved because they had &#8220;said the words&#8221; but clearly living a lifestyle contrary to God&#8217;s will.  I think it&#8217;s important that kids understand that the way we show love to God is in obedience to his will.  Conversion to the Christian life is just that &#8211; a life &#8211; not an event.</p>
<p>Brenna, thanks for the bridge analogy.  I have never quite seen it put like that, and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll have the opportunity to use that at some point in the future.  I think you also hit on an important point re: Children&#8217;s Ministry in general and that is the importance of small groups and close relationships.  Without those, I think it is virtually impossible to know whether or not a child it truly ready to accept Christ, and once they have there is no means of helping them to grow in the faith. </p>
<p>Glen, I think you&#8217;ve probably hit on the most important point.  It is prudent that we give some thought to how we will present the gospel to anyone.  It is particularly prudent that we give thought to how we will present to gospel to kids to avoid manipulating them.  But, in the end, it is the work of God to save them.  It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convict them, and it is the work of God to draw them to him.  We are merely his vessels.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your replies.  I love these installments of the Children&#8217;s Ministry Think Tank.  They always leave me with new ideas and new things to ponder and pray about.</p>
<p>Take Care!</p>
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		<title>By: Latest Links &#124; blog of dan</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7593</link>
		<dc:creator>Latest Links &#124; blog of dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7593</guid>
		<description>[...] Evangelizing Children Without Manipulation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Evangelizing Children Without Manipulation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: brennaphillips.com &#187; Child, and adult, evangelism minus manipulation</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7553</link>
		<dc:creator>brennaphillips.com &#187; Child, and adult, evangelism minus manipulation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7553</guid>
		<description>[...] the link to responses from other Children&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the link to responses from other Children&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evangelizing Children Without Manipulation&#160;&#124;&#160;Integrating Missionally &#8211; W. David Phillips</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7552</link>
		<dc:creator>Evangelizing Children Without Manipulation&#160;&#124;&#160;Integrating Missionally &#8211; W. David Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7552</guid>
		<description>[...] month&#8217;s Think Tank question was the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] month&#8217;s Think Tank question was the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Think Tank: Evangelism &#38; Manipulation — SojournKids</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7551</link>
		<dc:creator>Think Tank: Evangelism &#38; Manipulation — SojournKids</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7551</guid>
		<description>[...] of the Children&#8217;s Ministry Think Tank.  Here is the latest question and my thoughts.  Click over to his site to see very thoughtful answers to the same question from Brenna Phillips and Glenn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the Children&#8217;s Ministry Think Tank.  Here is the latest question and my thoughts.  Click over to his site to see very thoughtful answers to the same question from Brenna Phillips and Glenn [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jared Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7550</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7550</guid>
		<description>Wow Brenna!  That is abuse!  Yikes!

Glenn, I really appreciate your thoughts from a charismatic perspective.  Our church is not cessationist in doctrine (though we are essentially in practice), but as our leadership encourages all gifts to be sought and used (by both adults and children), I will need to keep in mind your strong words of caution.

Jeri, thanks for the encouragement.  I pray that many children&#039;s ministers will again preach the doctrine of &quot;alien&quot; salvation--and not think of little green men. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Brenna!  That is abuse!  Yikes!</p>
<p>Glenn, I really appreciate your thoughts from a charismatic perspective.  Our church is not cessationist in doctrine (though we are essentially in practice), but as our leadership encourages all gifts to be sought and used (by both adults and children), I will need to keep in mind your strong words of caution.</p>
<p>Jeri, thanks for the encouragement.  I pray that many children&#8217;s ministers will again preach the doctrine of &#8220;alien&#8221; salvation&#8211;and not think of little green men. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jeri</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7549</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7549</guid>
		<description>&quot;The gospel is NOT primarily about Jesus’ work in our heart but about Jesus’ work in history.&quot; Great words of truth, and the crux of the whole matter! Children (as well as we adults) need to be taught and reminded that salvation comes from outside ourselves... it is the gracious work of God. This is a truth the Church has largely lost sight of of and it needs to be regained! Thanks for the very helpful thoughts and important think tank topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The gospel is NOT primarily about Jesus’ work in our heart but about Jesus’ work in history.&#8221; Great words of truth, and the crux of the whole matter! Children (as well as we adults) need to be taught and reminded that salvation comes from outside ourselves&#8230; it is the gracious work of God. This is a truth the Church has largely lost sight of of and it needs to be regained! Thanks for the very helpful thoughts and important think tank topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://ministry-to-children.com/evangelizing-children/comment-page-1/#comment-7548</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ministry-to-children.com/?p=2955#comment-7548</guid>
		<description>Excellent comments and observations.  I&#039;ve taken flack from both sides of the question about proper child evangelism.  On the one hand, you&#039;ve got those who feel strongly that &quot;hands raised = souls saved.&quot;  On the other hand, you&#039;ve got those who believe that, unless the kid has been personally, methodically taught the essential truths of the gospel and understood completely and totally the implications of his decision, then he cannot possibly have truly been saved.

I believe that becoming a Christian is an instant event, but being a Christian is a process.  I know many teens and adults who &quot;got saved&quot;, but several years later came to grips with the full impact of the gospel in their lives and wanted to get saved again.  Their rationale? &quot;This time, I really want to mean it!&quot;   Maybe they truly did get saved for the first time, or maybe they were just renewing their dedication to the Lord.  But if we see this in adults and teens, how much more do we see it in children? 

I think we tend to short circuit some &quot;process&quot; by mildly scolding a child, &quot;you prayed the sinner&#039;s prayer on such and such a date...you don&#039;t need to keep asking Jesus into your heart.&quot;  How do we know?  Maybe that first &quot;sinner&#039;s prayer&quot; experience was motivated by peer pressure or a desire to please the teacher, but was not a genuine trusting in Jesus as Lord and Savior.  The desire, the stirring to &quot;accept Jesus again&quot; might very well be the Holy Spirit&#039;s drawing of that child.

I do give group invitations once in awhile and I do the &quot;pray after me&quot; technique.  And hands go up.  But as I report this, I am very careful to avoid saying, &quot;Twenty kids got saved!&quot;  Instead, I indicate that twenty kids were making professions of faith.  Some of the kids that I was reasonably confident had a relationship with the Lord might raise their hands...which I would take as a renewal of that relationship (or as I like to say, &quot;we had professions and refreshins!&quot;).   We attempt to follow up as best we can, but we noticed that in the most sincere professions, the child sought us out to tell us.

Sorry for the lengthy reply and thanks for letting me share my 2 1/2 cents!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent comments and observations.  I&#8217;ve taken flack from both sides of the question about proper child evangelism.  On the one hand, you&#8217;ve got those who feel strongly that &#8220;hands raised = souls saved.&#8221;  On the other hand, you&#8217;ve got those who believe that, unless the kid has been personally, methodically taught the essential truths of the gospel and understood completely and totally the implications of his decision, then he cannot possibly have truly been saved.</p>
<p>I believe that becoming a Christian is an instant event, but being a Christian is a process.  I know many teens and adults who &#8220;got saved&#8221;, but several years later came to grips with the full impact of the gospel in their lives and wanted to get saved again.  Their rationale? &#8220;This time, I really want to mean it!&#8221;   Maybe they truly did get saved for the first time, or maybe they were just renewing their dedication to the Lord.  But if we see this in adults and teens, how much more do we see it in children? </p>
<p>I think we tend to short circuit some &#8220;process&#8221; by mildly scolding a child, &#8220;you prayed the sinner&#8217;s prayer on such and such a date&#8230;you don&#8217;t need to keep asking Jesus into your heart.&#8221;  How do we know?  Maybe that first &#8220;sinner&#8217;s prayer&#8221; experience was motivated by peer pressure or a desire to please the teacher, but was not a genuine trusting in Jesus as Lord and Savior.  The desire, the stirring to &#8220;accept Jesus again&#8221; might very well be the Holy Spirit&#8217;s drawing of that child.</p>
<p>I do give group invitations once in awhile and I do the &#8220;pray after me&#8221; technique.  And hands go up.  But as I report this, I am very careful to avoid saying, &#8220;Twenty kids got saved!&#8221;  Instead, I indicate that twenty kids were making professions of faith.  Some of the kids that I was reasonably confident had a relationship with the Lord might raise their hands&#8230;which I would take as a renewal of that relationship (or as I like to say, &#8220;we had professions and refreshins!&#8221;).   We attempt to follow up as best we can, but we noticed that in the most sincere professions, the child sought us out to tell us.</p>
<p>Sorry for the lengthy reply and thanks for letting me share my 2 1/2 cents!</p>
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